Grindin’ sets: Darkace and Phil aka Def-P Shadowlogic 24th June 2013

More sets!

I have been specifically practicing how to focus dash through Chun’s Hazanshu on reaction as the last time I played Darkace I noticed he liked to Hazanshu at point blank range a lot. He would even do them a lot on wake up and hit me! Which really frustrated me a lot. So we played a set at the HQ during SEAM2013 weekend, and I got to see if I had made any progress in the Chun match.

I’m not happy. Not only did I fail to focus through a single Hazanshu on reaction, I also still am not consistent with the spacing in the Chun Li match. You can see there’s a certain far range that you can walk back and outpoke her standing mp with my cmk, I have to stick to that range and not get caught in no-man’s land all the time. Also, I failed to DP crossup light kicks and that command crossup. I noticed two dominant bad traits I have from my sets at HQ today. The first I can see from the Darkace set: inability to adapt to opponent’s patterns.

Darkace has a lot of patterns that I should be punishing extremely, extremely hard, instead of letting him get away with it constantly. Things like: he always, always Hazanshus after a low forward. I should just immediately focus after the low focus and punish him with a focus through, cmp cmp cmk tatsu. Weirdly enough, I was punishing some of his patterns: after an anti-air DP where he recovers to far for me to me to successfully meaty, he usually goes for a backdash. And I caught it with a ume-tatsu multiple times. I clearly can recognise and punish some patterns, why can’t I do it for all his patterns and habits?!? Bah.

After that I played Pyro and he was trolling me with Ryu. But somehow the set wasn’t recorded 😦 I must not have pressed the red button on the LGP, damnit. Oh well, at least I recorded the set after that against another prime Melbourne Ryu, my good buddy Phil aka Def-P aka God of Men amongst Asian Women.

So my second bad dominant trait can by summed up by Genki’s description of my game: “I think your fundamentals are actually strong, but you always choke at the end.”

And this is true. I give in to temptation and throw that last fireball which lets people jump in for the win. There was one round that I was particularly disgusted with myself when instead of being patient I tried to ume-tatsu through a fireball and Phil just DPed it for the KO. Very uncharacteristic of me to do that in the clutch, but it’s just another example of me making bad decisions when the game is on the line.

Another bad trend I notice is that I am not spending my meter when I have Ultra to kill!! Why am I doing FADC combos in the corner that do big damage but do not kill when I can just EX Tatsu in Ultra for the win instead?? Arghhhhh.

I also am still not DPing crossups in the neutral game, and my tech game was really bad in this set. I have to watch the whole thing again, but from memory I recall not being very happy with my footsie game. I think I let him whiff a lot of low forwards unpunished.

Phil, what do you think?

P.S. We ran off quickly after the last game to watch Stef vs. Wong. Overall our boys did really well in Marvel, it was awesome to watch and cheer for them live at HQ. Big thanks to Bugs, Chris Ho and Burnout for organising it. Farpenoodle had the most awesome stream layout, Zhi was funny as hell, and the tournament was hype-ass. Kudos to Yongde aka Cameraman and the whole Tough Cookie staff.

And lastly to all our boys who went over there- good shit guys!!!

BONUS SECTION: Commentary by Jeff and Kilok

I thought, who better to ask about the Chun vs. Ryu match other than my two sifu: Jeff aka Renzuo aka Basemaster aka God Chun Li of Melbourne and Kilok aka the Warrior aka Best Ryu in Bluehouse.



Kilok: against chun you have to respect her ground game

to a degree

the sweep and stuff

M: right

K: and is not all that good against her

M: u stand just outside stand MP range?

K: Jeff tends to get hit alot by other ppls

nuh .. you can

stand outside her sweep range

you can whiff punish if she sweeps …

M: hard tho her range is so far

then i cannot hit her with anything

K: and you can also + super if she whiffs sweep

strict distance though is not too bad

dont whiff


M: yeah will get swept

K: you either deep

or not at all

M: icic

walk block more


also jump less


I think against character I feel outfootsied I tend to jump more

K:also … f+hp

dont do too much against her

but when you are close you can

coz her shu will land behind you

and you can counter hit her if she presses buttons on wake up

but you have to be careful with her ex bird

M: true

also, is it bad to crossup mk chun li in neutral game?

it seems she just do clk and my mk whiffs and she punishes


i found that jump a lot is not good against chun

you can do that on her wake up

jump less and concentrate on not getting swept

and don’t stick out anything at random

her and sweep will out poke you

M: i should do nothing more against chun

K: and don’t fireball as much also

M: how do you deal with chun focus attack?

K: depends which one

fast release or slow release

its player dependent this one

against players that focus like crazy its good thing for you

right on front of yOU ?

M: in my cmk range

K: 1.) is dangerous

try neutral jump

or walk in actually f+hp

M: not forward jump?

K: ok also

but i would walk forward and f+hp

jeff eat packs of that

before she stops focusing

M: ok

M: btw what do u do when chun wake up hshu

K: light shu ?

M: sometimes light

sometimes ex

K: chun will do that if you throw her too much

or she tries to get out of trouble with no bar

if you can read she is going to do it

there are few options

let say

she blocks your f+hp

and you normally throw

M: uhuh

K:then she will do that to beat you out ?

is that the situation or similar?

although no wake up

but same principle

light shu you can block on reaction

online is hard

Jeff always does that

when she blocks my f+hp

i neutral jump most of the time

reversal will armour break if you focus

M: good point

K:i got Jeff alot with neutral jump

then he reads my njump and jump slap slap

M: haha mindgames

K:but he ate quite a few before changing

M: haha

K: can you react to focus ?

sometimes you really can’t do anything (except lp) and wait for it to come


but should alway learn to dp

M: i can’t really react

K: coz sometimes you might run out of health to focus

M:unless im reading it

K: just sit there and wait

2 version

lvl3 crumple

or focus dash depend on whether chun has 2 ex

in summary – work on defending better on the ground

1.) by actually not walking into sweep,

2.) but not sticking out too much

3.) dont jump recklessly

knock her down first if you have to jump

M: ok

good advice


Jeff: You need to punish neutral jumps

with uppercut

M: not too far?

oh like i whiff throw

then he jump up i should uppercut right?

J:anything you whiff.


coz you could block it, means you could have uppercut it

you need to read chun li better. Just like how Ryu likes to do fire-ball after
This chunli likes to cancel her into hazanshu
also quite common for many chunli to do Kikouken after

M: yeah bad habit of his

I should punish, I even specifically practice in training mode to focus thru hazanshu before I played him! but couldn’t do it in match zz

J: I think you need to play abit more patient.

From what I see is that you kept trying to do something

M: I think against character I feel outfootsied I tend to jump more

J: you should move forward and wait until Chun is doing something. and react to it

M: yeah impatient cos losing footsies

J: I see

yeah. you need to FA that hazanshu. or neutral jump at least

she’s doing too much hsu

M: agree

my pattern recognition is very bad

never focus thru a single time

J: not just pattern. You are just too occupied into trying to do something, trying to attack. You will not be able to react to HSU

to react HSU, you kinda have to stop doing anything and wait for it

M: icic

you are right

just like stopping for a sec to look for jump/tatsu

i should do nothing more

J: like in footsie range where you think you can’t do anything. just wait there

don’t try to jump

The only things she can do would be 1. Jump (you can AA because you wait for him to do something)
2. Sweep. You should be FA-ing in this distance.
3. HSU. you can react if you don’t do anything.
4. If she moves forward. just throw a

in fact, you should be standing outside her sweep range

M: where should I stand? outside stand mp but inside sweep so I can focus>

J: if she tries to sweep and whiffs. You can just punish sweep her

M: hm


J: nah, in general. always outside her sweep range

M: I take a lot of damage trying to get inside sweep range

good point

J: but if you ARE inside sweep range, then get ready to focus attack

just stand outside her sweep range. and she’ll get frustrated

you can fireball from sweep range

outside sweep range i mean

M: true

J: she can’t really get in too. if you just wait outside her sweep range

if she walks forward. just react with sweep or

M: i also have problems with chun focus

i know johnny tried to tell me how to deal with it

J: i think it is important to space yourself so you stand outside her sweep range

M: ok

my basic spacing is wrong

J: just stand outside her sweep range and wait.

against him

play fireball sometimes., whiff punish the sweeps

if she moves inside your range. do

i think you aren’t doing enough vortex as well

M: u mean mix it up

empty jump low


J: yeah

but there’s a mixup that makes ryu seems like teleported behind

very hard to see

basically empty crossup into

M: hmm i should practice that

i seldom do it because I think good players autoblock it

but i guess should do it sometimes to mix it up

J: you should react her kikouken with tatsu

or read

she’s kikouken happy

M: why tatsu instead of jump

to catch random backdash as well?

you’re right I didn’t even notice the stand mp kikoken before

J: it’s okay if you think jump is better. Tatsu breaks FA if she’s to FA happy

But yeah 3 main points really.
1. FA hsu
2. Spacing stand outside sweep range and wait. don’t get too impatient.
3. don’t jump too much

that’s all


M: ok thanks jeff

J: walk forward. DON’T dash forward

M: last question, what to do when chun wakeup hshu?

J: you dash to gain space when she’s knocked down is fine

M: true

J: but dashing when she’s standing is no good

M: another bad habit of mine

J: What are you trying to do when she’s doing wakeup Hsu ?

M: I think delayed cmp

J: if you are trying to do meaty, meaty should tag it

M: does ex have invinc?

J: yes it does

M: sometimes throw

J: if too delayed, you can’t block wake up hsu.
if you do a proper timing of delayed, you will still have time to block/FA/uppercut

M: ok think I just fail to react

J: your close game pressure isn’t scary enough (walk forward slightly) and then uppercut. or

M: how do i improve it? against this chun I try to frame trap more i get clked by him

J: easy CH setup is when you sweep her

and then safejump will be meaty and deep

you will have alot of+ frames

so after walk foward and then

that should get alot of ppl

just do (slight delay) if she blocks. that means the next time you try, delay some more

M: ok

J: punish neutral jump lol

she got away with too many neutral jumps

M: yeah

i saw in match also facepalm

J: Kilok likes to do and then delay and then ex-tatsu

that gets me alot

ex-tatsu beats

M:  true

and vacuums backdash

J: yeah, you knock her down alot. but your pressure isn’t strong enough, walk forward a tad bit, is good

you like to do and straight away

it’s not strong unless you are in very deep position

M: hm

J: your fireball game is weak too lol. sorry to say

M: i know

that’s why my ryu is weak

J: you should be able to fireball non stop

M: cos without strong fireball game ryu cannot beat most matchups

J: there’s a spacing, outside the sweep range where you can just fireball and throw a to bait for Hsu

fireball and fireball again.

it’s hard to react

if I jump at that distance, you would have recovered and ready to uppercut, unless I press up-forward as soon as I recovered and you FB-ed

if she walks backward and doesn’t have ultra. just throw a fire ball

Thanks very much, Jeff and Kilok <m(__)m>

Edit: changed the Youtube links because I accidentally uploaded them to the wrong account. Doh.

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2 Responses to Grindin’ sets: Darkace and Phil aka Def-P Shadowlogic 24th June 2013

  1. Phil Def-P says:

    We were both making pretty bad decisions, letting our muscle memory do the work.
    Again you’ve heard this before but you’re fundamentals are solid, I find it really hard to jump in at you unless its a crossup.
    I also have a lot of common faults

    Notes on the match:
    You tend to panic when we both get to low HP, rushing in or doing random things.
    If you noticed a lot of the rounds you have the life lead,
    Not whiff punishing my or sweep’s enough.
    Wake up medium DP, if you’re gonna DP on wakeup, commit and use Heavy DP unless you have meter and plan to FADC
    Your throw pattern is predictable, I think i teched about 80% of them. Use that to your advantage and try frame trap or kara throw.
    You waste meter throwing random midscreen ex-fireballs, while I tend to save for super meter.
    Not using meter to finish me off when its a clutch moment.

    Overall your Ryu is good. If you improve your spacing and whiff punishes I think I will find it very hard to win. But because you’re playing such a textbook ryu, it is very predictable so you’ll have to be on point with these things.

    I’m gonna go back to the training room and practice a few things, we should have another set soon and see how we’ve both adapted.

  2. muttonhead says:

    Agree with everything you said. I think I was going for the “safe option” a lot- delayed back throw but I should have mixed it up with more meatier, delayed frame traps, walk back throw etc. I think you put the fear of dp into me early so I was more conservative on your wakeup which is bad because you started not dping at all.

    Agree on the whiff punishing, not only was I not doing it enough, I was getting hit by things by walk forward sweep and walk forward cmk ex fireball when you were in the corner. I should not be getting hit by things like that especially when I have optimal positioning like that. Bad spacing. I think both of us need to work on this (I have been working hard on this so it’s extra disappointing to me)

    What do you mean by wake up medium DP? You mean on your crossups? I usually use heavy DP on my wakeup if I’m going to DP meterless, but I have this theory that MP DP is better against ambiguous crossups. And it’s something I have been doing recently, using MP DP more against crossups. Is this what you mean?

    Yeah sounds good, we can record more sets and our progress.

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